#i think the problem is that some people only know cass from red robin

[mysteriousbeetle]

People act like Tim and Cass's relationship is all smooth sailing which is not true. And I think acting like it is does a disservice to their relationship.

During No Man's Land while Tim cares about her general survival, he is shown to dislike her and feel reluctant about working with her (Robin (1993) #73). While this reluctance continues after No Man's Land, it's resolved by the end of Batgirl (2000) #18.

They are both very different people and in order to find an understanding they have to put in the effort. Even then, that doesn't mean they're always on the same page.

In Robin/Batgirl: Fresh Blood, while they are able to work well together, they are shown to have differing ideals and have some disagreements over them.

They're siblings and again very different people so of course they're capable of arguing. And I think it's also important to acknowledge that it took time and effort to form the relationship they have. I'm not saying that they don't get along but to ignore their conflicts really takes away from their complexity and makes their relationship seem a lot less interesting.

[chaoticwriting]

Part 1

Fenton Crime Family 2

-Batcave-

The batmobile enters the cave with a resounding boom. When it stops, Nightwing, Batman, Robin and Red Robin jump out of the car with Batman going to the batcomputer to make a report. The rest go to change their suit when the elevator bell sounded. Out comes Alfred with a tray of tea and snacks.

Alfred: Returning early today, Master Bruce?

Bruce: *Grunts* Someone has already captured all the rogues before we reach them.

Red Robin: And Oracle can't find any footage of the person in question. All she got is blurry and fuzzy images and the next moment, the rogue has already been tied up. The only thing we know is that the rogues that got beaten up all are around The Bowery.

A revved of a motorcycle enters the Batcave and Red Hood enters with Black Bat and Spoiler following from behind. Red Hood gets off his bike and sits on one of the sofas while taking a plate of cookies from the tray.

Red Hood: I think I know the guy you are talking about.

Red Robin: You know?

Red Hood: Yeah. There is a new gang in The Bowery. They call themselves the Undead. Their MO is completely different from any other gang in Gotham.

Red Robin: So our guy is part of this gang?

Red Hood: Worse. The guy is possibly the leader of the gang.

Red Robin: What?

Red Hood: You say any video of the guy is corrupted in someway right?

Red Robin: Yeah. The image is blurry and the audio is unusable.

Red Hood: Yeah. That's the same thing that happens to all the spying devices I use on them. No recording devices can directly record the leader specifically but from what I know, the leader is supposed to be a child.

Batman: A child?

Red Hood: Yeah. And no. She will not get adopted by you. Apparently, she has a personal vendetta against rich people.

Nightwing: Welp. There goes my new sister.

Robin: I would appreciate it if father put more restraint on his adoption problem.

Batman: *Grunts*

Red Robin: What else do we know about the girl?

Red Hood: Not much actually. Most of the people around her are children around Damian's age so we can assume she is also around that age.

Red Robin: What about her gang?

Red Hood: Remember how I say their MO is completely different from anyone else? Yeah, that's because they don't seem to work like a gang.

Batman: Explain.

Red Hood: They don't partake in any illegal activity at all except for some sketchy gold selling that doesn't have any source. Even those golds are sold at a very high price because they are old gold. Apparently, the collectors are going crazy for them.

Red Robin: Then how do they obtain money?

Red Hood: Using their money as capital, they bought buildings and shops and made their gang members work there. Hell if not for the fact that I know it's a gang, I would have mistaken them as a company.

Red Robin: Anything else?

Red Hood: The leader also has a brother and an unknown sister. Both are older with only the brother ever showing up. White hair, green eyes and around Timmy's and Cass's height.

Black Bat: *Frown*

Spoiler: Wassup BB? Got any news?

Black Bat: I meet the brother.

Red Robin: What? Where?

Black Bat: On a rooftop. He says he is on the lookout for rogues.

Nightwing: You are not hurt right? He didn't attack you?

Black Bat: No. Not hostile.

Red Hood: I thought so. My underlings also say that The Undead is quite friendly. They wouldn't actively hunt other gangs unless provoked first.

Batman: Find out more about them. All of you go to bed. I will finish the report.

Red Hood: Well I guess that's my cue to go. See you never old man.

Red Hood then gets on his motorcycle and exits the cave. The others also move and return to the manor. The others realize that Cass is unusually absent minded the whole time they are going to bed. Cass is usually quiet but her eyes also show that she is not focusing on her surroundings.

She lays on her bed after showering thinking heavily on today's event. The guy that she meets on the rooftop seems so familiar to her. She just doesn't know who.

-The Bowery-

Ellie is not having a good day. First, Danny and Jazz are pressuring her to go to school at breakfast. She says she doesn't like school and their response is how can she not like it when she never experienced it herself. To that response, she has seen how Danny struggles with class and she is pretty sure he is not having fun.

Then there is that new gang that suddenly rises up. It's one thing to make a new gang. But then they have the audacity to send people to kidnap Danny. Sure, Danny is strong enough to raze Gotham to the ground if he wants to. But it's the principle that counts. She is going to punt their group to the ground for doing something like that.

And then there is this Arkham breakout. Why can't all these guys just stay in Arkham anyway? It's not like there is much for them to do outside. After she beats up Condiment King (Ellie swears she is going to kill this guy for covering her in mustard) and Professor Pyg, she gets the news that Danny has already beat up all the rogues near The Bowery.

On the bright side though, she met this cute guy named Damian. He has a little temper but not something she hasn't dealt with before. She is apparently some rich guy's son but she really can't see the similarities in their mannerism from what she sees in this Brucie Wayne guy. After talking for a bit they promised to go out on a date at a zoo. His dad sponsors it and apparently there is a new animal in the exhibition.

After all things are settled she goes back home to have dinner with her family. After teasing Danny a little bit about his date, she goes to bed excited for the date.

Part 3

[clockwayswrites]

City Pigeons Part 12 CW: blood, past trauma and experimentation

Jason could almost go to sleep. He wouldn’t, not when he was the only Bat in the apartment, but it would be so easy to. Danny made a really good weighted blanket.

It seemed once the kid got over touching someone, he basically became a koala. Cass and Danny had spent the morning wrapped around each other on the couch. Cass was playing one of her weird clicking games and Danny, blue bear in his lap, was scrolling through articles on the tablet that Tim had brought him the other day.

Now, though, Cass was out on a snack run and Danny had slowly slumped over until he was laying across Jason. It wasn’t minded. Jason could admit he still had some trouble with touch himself, but it was easy to be there for Danny like this.

The problem was, Jason needed to get back to Crime Alley for at least a few nights. He was already past when Red Hood should have made an appearance. It he didn’t go back soon, rumors were going to start that he was dead. Again.

Jason waited for Danny to start searching for a new article to read to ask, “Are you alright with meeting someone soon?”

He didn’t expect Danny to tense like he did.

“Robin?”

“No, Dandelion,” Jason said, stroking Danny’s white hair. “N talked with Robin and he knows not to stop by like that without warning. We’ll have him over when you’re comfortable but not before.”

“Okay. Sorry. I don’t mean to…”

“None of that. He freaked you out,” Jason said. “I know he didn’t mean to, and from our guess it’s not his fault how he feels like to you, but that doesn’t mean he didn’t. It’s okay to set boundaries.”

“He… doesn’t feel weird to you?”

Jason sighed. “No. I guess I don’t sense it. I didn’t know you had died until you told me.”

“Oh.” Danny’s voice was small and quiet.

“But I knew that I had died— the others know it’s too,” Jason was quick to add. “It’s alright that you died. No one will think differently of you.”

“They might. It’s… you’re different than me, I guess.”

“I don’t know, because I don’t know what happened to you, but I actually hope so. The way I came back wasn’t pleasant.” Jason had to take a breath before he continued. “I was murdered by a rogue in town called the Joker. I woke up… we’re still not sure when exactly, but somewhere about half a year later. I didn’t have any of my memories, but I still had most of my injuries.

“I was picked up by some people you might hear us refer to— the League of Assassins. They put me back together about a year after my death by tossing me in something called the Lazarus Pits. Those things come with a price though, one that I’m still paying. Coming back was… hard, in a lot of ways.”

“Oh,” Danny said. He clung a little to Jason’s shirt, like he wanted to make sure Jason was still there. It was a feeling Jason understood all too well. “I, um, don’t think I’ve ever stayed really dead for more than a minute or two. At least not like… not like you were.”

Jason rested his hand on Danny’s back, feeling him breath. Feeling him… feeling him not breathe.

“…Danny?”

Danny clung tighter to Jason’s shirt. “Go ahead, ask.”

“Are you… somewhat dead right now?”

“Yes.”

Just one word. A simple answer.

“Okay. That’s— okay. I’m glad there’s a reason that you’re not breathing,” Jason said and pressed a kiss to the top of Danny’s head as he tried to calm his own pounding heart.

“I think B.B. knows. I usually… it’s habit to breath but sometimes I forget and—”

“She’s good at noticing things.” Jason would have to talk with her. “But that goes to what I said, right? None of the others will thinking of you differently.”

“Even if…”

“Even if anything.”

Danny sat up and Jason resisted the urge to reach for him. It took him a moment longer to release Jason’s shirt. Jason sat up slowly and waited for Danny to get the words out he was obviously working on.

“Can I show you?”

“Course.” Jason braced himself for anything.

“It might be bright, close your eyes.”

The flash still shown through Jason’s eyelids.

“Oh.” Danny’s voice wavered horribly. “I didn’t think of that.”

“Danny?” Jason was reaching forward even as he opened his eyes.

It was good he did.

He had to catch Danny as he wavered dangerously. Danny’s who hair was black. Who’s eyes were blue. Who looked all the more like Bruce’s son. Who was bleeding red.

-

“Jesus and Mother Mary,” Dick cursed, resting his forehead against his wrist’s.

Cass came over and peeled the bloody gloves off for him. “Breathe.”

“I am breathing,” Dick wheezed.

“Badly.”

Jason barked out a laugh at that. It was unstable in a way that reminded the room of worse days.

The door banged open and they all jolted, everyone but Cass, who was better than that, and Danny who was still out cold.

“Shit, fuck, sorry,” Tim rambled. “Is he stable?”

“Yes,” Cass answered. Her voice was calm, but but Duke could see the way that she fidgeted. For anyone else it wouldn’t be called fidgeting, but the way that she untied and retied and untied the trash bag in his visions told Dick otherwise.

Cass was as worried as the rest of them.

“Signal?” Tim asked. He came into the room, tablet already pulled up to record everything.

“Hard for me to say,” Duke said with a little shrug. He wished he could say, but he was still trying to understand what he was seeing. “The guy is… he’s like no one I’ve ever seen before. But I think he’s getting stronger.”

“That’s— holy fuck.” Tim paused as he finally got a look at Danny.

“Really looks like the old man like this, doesn’t he?” Jason asked. He was trying to hide how his hands were trembling by keeping his arms crossed. Everyone in the room let him pretend.

Duke sure wouldn’t have wanted to be the one Danny collapsed on like that. It was bad enough being the third one there as he swung over from his patrol. The cuts had still been appearing on Danny’s skin, ripping him apart like he was nothing.

He didn’t look much better all bandaged up.

“I think the cuts were ones he must have sustained before changing forms before he even met us,” Duke reasoned. “They… felt old.”

Dick rubbed at his face. “So the whole time they were there just waiting to bleed?”

Jason laughed again. “Waiting for him to be alive again.”

Slowly, Dick dropped his hands and looked up at Jason. “Jay?”

Okay, so they were at the point of forgetting cape-names now. That was a great sign.

Confusingly, Jason looked to Cass, who actually fidgeted.

“He doesn’t breathe. He does, not always. His heart beats, not always. It is like he…,” she twisted her hand as if trying to grab onto the right word. “Like he relaxes and forgets.”

Well that was weird. Dick nodded to the monitor that he had helped hook up. “He’s breathing right now and the monitor says his heartbeat is hella slow, but steady.”

“This is his alive form, I think. More alive form,” Jason said with a shrug. “His other form is his more dead form. He said he’s never stayed ‘really dead’ like I was. I think ‘really’ was the important word in that. He stressed it like it was… a technically or some shit.”

“Or a loophole,” Tim said. He was watching Danny with his head tilted just slightly to the right.

It was a pose that had Duke straightening up in attention. “What do you see that I can’t?”

Tim glanced at him and then back down at Danny. “The scars don’t match.”

“Ti—Red, please just say it,” Dick pleaded, exhaustion hanging on his words.

“Sorry, I was. I mean, the scars he has now don’t exactly match the scars he had in his— what are we calling it? Dead form?”

Jason flinched.

Dick’s eyes flicked from Jason to Tim. “Let’s go with… ghost. Undead, you know?”

Tim continued on valiantly. “His scars don’t match with what he had in his ghost form. There are a few like around his neck that I think are one-to-one and a lot of them are in the same place from what I can see and might be the same? I’d have to take photos and compare. But… he has more in this living form, I’m sure of it.”

“Okay, right, so that’s a thing,” Jason said. He slid down the wall he was leaning against until he was squatting. He hung his head between his knee and wrapped his hands around the back of his neck.

Duke could see Jason passing out with enough probability that he slipped out of the room to grab some sour candy for Jason and an icepack for the back of his neck. Being honest with himself, Duke could use the moment out of the room. It was a lot to deal with.

Man, someone would have to do something about the bloody couch too… Dick sighed and took the time to send a message to Babs about it as well as an update. Knowing her she had a list of all the furniture in all the safe houses and could get a slipcover ordered on same day delivery. At least he hoped so. Everyone was taking this pretty hard and they didn’t need the reminder.

Duke figured the bad reaction was pretty fair though, they had thought that Danny was getting better and now his healing was going to be set back. Dick would be guilty because he hadn’t been here, Jason going through his issues about kids and violence and death, and Cass already counted Danny as family. She was never good when family was hurt. It was even worse that Danny should have been safe, he was under their watch.

Duke set the pack of candy and ice pack down next to Jason’s foot, close enough that he should be able to feel the cold, and backed up to his corner. It was best not to touch right then. He wasn’t afraid of Jason ever hurting him purposefully, but he was also very aware for Jason it might not always be purposeful.

Cass joined him, leaning against his side, and Duke wrapped an arm around her. Tim was tapping away on his tablet, mostly muttering to himself, but Dick had gotten up to peer over his shoulder.

Jason tore open the packet of candies and popped one in his mouth.

They’d be okay.

It would take work, but they were Bats. They were stubborn.

Dukes wrist buzzed. The tracking number for slipcover flashed across his hud. It would be there by 9 pm.

They’d be okay.

-

Everything hurt. Everything ached all the way down through his skin and muscled and bones. His breath caught in his chest, ragged and frayed like his lungs were full of shattered glass.

He tried not to make a noise.

He tried to stay quiet.

They would notice him if he made a noise. He couldn’t take any more attention. He didn’t think he’d survive more attention. God, that thought was almost enough to kill him. Once he would have done anything for his parents attention and now—

There was a hand in his hair. It was gentle.

Oh, he was crying.

“…going to be okay. We have you, Dandelion, and we’re not letting them touch you ever again. The two Reds will make sure it can never happen again. Once you’re better they’ll take a little road trip.”

That was… that wasn’t… a sob broke through Danny’s lips and he didn’t stop it. He didn’t even try.

He wasn’t there.

He could make noises.

He was safe.

“Danny? Hey, are you awake.”

Danny nodded as much as he could manage.

“Hey there,” Nightwing said, voice so kind that it just made Danny cry harder. “Can you open your eyes for me?”

Danny shook his head.

“Okay, that’s okay, thank you for answering me Danny. How’s the pain? Um, squeeze my hand once if it’s okay, twice if it’s really bad.”

Danny squeezed it three times.

“Really, really bad, huh? Okay. Okay… we can give you some pain meds through your IV. We have you on a saline drip because you looked really bad. We didn’t want to give you any meds without your consent though. Are you alright with some pain medication? Once for yes, twice for no.”

One squeeze.

“Okay, let me go—”

Danny clung to Nightwing’s hand a tightly at he could. His breath stuttered around the glass.

“Not leaving, Dandelion. I’m going to text Red Robin, okay? He’s in the living room. Hood and B.B are out… running an errand. They’ll be back soon. I’ll text Red and he’ll bring the pain meds.”

Danny nodded. Nightwing shifted around, but didn’t let go of Danny’s hand. The breathing calmed, got easier. Danny let out a slow breath.

“Hey Danny,” a new voice said. “The medication will make you feel fuzzy and maybe disoriented. You’ll probably sleep a lot. We don’t want you to wake up panicked. Is there anything we can do to help you know you’re here with us and safe?”

“Bear,” Danny croaked. He wet his lips and tried to continue. “Smells that aren’t… Touch. Warmth.”

“Red will get your teddy bear as soon as the meds are hooked up and we’ll work on the other things. One of us will always be here with you,” Nightwing said.

Danny squeezed his hand again.

“Okay. We won’t leave you alone, Danny, we’ll keep you safe. You’ll be okay.”

Danny trusted that.

It was surprising.

He didn’t think he could trust anymore, but Danny trusted that, trusted them.

The warmth of that thought followed him back into the black.

---

AN: This all Danny's fault, not mine! He decided to reveal his form early and then... welp.....

...Stay delightful, darlings?

[blackbirdsblackberries]

You know, if they ever figure out MC whole identity. Tim is going to regret it so bad, that he won't even spill his hero identity as Red Robin. Especially, when Aranea says she doesn't like the Wayne's much. Either try to convince she should like the Waynes or hide their civilian identities even more. Like, it's funny that after her reveal, she won't go near Batman, cuz she knows he's Bruce Wayne. Like, amicable as co-workers, but that's it. And with reveal that she has a not good home life, and hating Aranea, was this her way of being self loathing (is what the Batfam, or atleast Tim thinks).

Also, brrruuuuuhhhhhh to Stephanie. Like instead of calling 911, she records it? Wow, she is on my shit list. Also, everyone is on thin ice. Heck, they ain't even on ice they are in the cold ass water of the North North America's. Only Duke (and maybe Cass) are on the ice, the rest fucking drowns.

I'm wondering how the reveal of MC being Aranea will go. Is it through the diaries that Tim snatched? Or through the blood test? Or something bad that a face reveal has to happen.

Sorry I haven't answered this ask for so long, I keep meaning to but get distracted!! 😭

Once Tim finds out he'd go one of two ways:

1. He'd hide any and all traces of him being associated with the family, who cares about the others, that's their problem.

2. He'd delude himself into thinking you'll change your opinion once you know his identity. After all, you guys are a great duo on missions!!

Batman is kicking rocks and cursing like a sailor when he finds out. Especially when you distance yourself from them - from him.

Jason is throwing punches at your parents abusers. Dont worry, Batman will turn a blind eye to roughing them up.. two less bad people won't change anything 😙

My girl Stephanie needed that content 🙏🏻😭

It's like when you watch a video of some stranger getting beaten up and you're like "Woah! That's crazy.." then scroll

All of them are so far in the ice cold water they ended up in hell (AND THEY'RE STILL SINKING)

Don't have much hope for Cass and judging by everyone's reactions to others Duke will be on the top of your shit list!

[krunklys]

Why Batcest is a Thing

I was talking with my friend the other day and while she's not a batcest shipper, she asked me why I was. I said that I don't think I take it to the same extremes some other people do, a few things that aren't a personal favorite of mine would be any of the REALLY younger kids with Bruce or say Dick and Damian. It's mostly the age gap that gets to me.

But she asked why I liked JayTim and I had a time explaining it to her and I wanted to bring it here as a sort of explanation, I suppose for people who might not enjoy batcest ships.

first of all, the name. Batcest is... an interesting name. A lot of arguments you'll come across is that they're not actually related, or there are some fanfics out there for aus where one of them (most commonly Tim or Jason) were never apart of the Batfamily in the first place. Of course, there are some where they are! Because, at the end of the day, in Canon they do share a family. But the implication of it being incest can be a real no no for people, even if it's not. Dick wasn't adopted into the family for quiet some time (I think he was adopted around the same time Tim was but I'm not a 100% sure, not to mention he acted as his ward and then aged out of it), Jason was adopted but after his return to life has regularly denied his part in the family (Look at literally any Red Hood Comic, though I do prefer to look at the New 52 Red Hood and The Outlaws for his feelings towards Bruce and the Wayne's in general), Tim was adopted but was later emancipated (in Red Robin), and Damian has a blood relation to Bruce only. Morally, there can be a problem with it but for mow shippers, since this is fiction, the lack of blood relation means there's no problem. Remember! They're not real people. Adoptive relationships, or pseudo familial ones, they don't see these relations as any reason to not ship them! And in later points, I go into why. And if people really had a problem with this pseudo familiar relationships, take for example Tim and Jason who have never once lives under the same roof nor have any legal connection to each other through Bruce, then on principal alone they should have a problem with Cassandra and Stephanie - Cass is adopted by Bruce, yes, but Bruce has also claimed Stephanie as part of the family and includes her in family talks. Does that not make them family members? No. They're friends or girlfriends, depending on how you want to interpret them.

Secondly, the canon relationships that any of the Bats have with their partners. I could go through all of them and explain the nuance of the relationships but I'll simplify for the sake of the post. In Bruce's sake, whether it be Talia or Selina or for the more fanon ones like Clark and Min Khoa (i think that's how you spell that, I'm not sure though!), there's no denying that in Canon these relationships don't pan out. Talia and Bruce have moral problems, even if she was originally a spy and didn't kill, and Selina and Bruce have an entire history of problems. For Dick, himself and Barbara are much of the same. A sweet beginning until something comes in to ruin it and they break up. Take, for example, the newest Nightwing run (on webtoon and not technically canon, i know). Barbara breaks up with Dick because she feels disconnected from him and like he's still preforming for her, but they have no conversation about this prior to it. With Kori, I'm not as knowledgeable about why they broke up, all I know is that they did and it was ugly. Another example is Tim! Himself and Stephanie didn't work out because she couldn't trust him, due to now knowing his identity, and then she faked her death, causing the distrust between them both. These are only a few examples of how relationships work out for Bats and in my personal opinion I think it's because of a ack of understanding for the characters, their love interests I mean. And in fanon, partners for Batfamily members tend to be washed down - Kon acts as an emotional crutch for Tim, Roy has morals he simply does not stand with anymore in Canon in JayRoy fics, Barbara is an anecdote in DickBarbara fics, and Selina is barely featured in Bruce fics. Not to mention the simple lack of wlw fics in the fandom that aren't background.

Due to this, the shipping of Batfamily members together is only natural. The characters share similar morals or in the case of Tim have such complicated morals that in fandom you can pick and choose what to use. They're fleshed out, have a canon relationship with multiple layers to it, and complete each other in many ways. In comparison to some of the fandom favorite ships like SuperBat or BirdFlash, where we only see a two dimensional aspect of their relationship recently, then the shipping of characters like Jason and Tim or Tim and Dick together is a natural conclusion to reach.

And Finally, History and old characteristics. It was mentioned before in another post that I'll try to hunt down for you guys and link in a repost because it will be WORLDS better than what I could write and have much more research thrown into it than this does, but originally there were a lot of implications under their relationships, specifically Bruce and Dick. Wardships programs were used by a lot of gay people when gay marriage was illegal, so were adult adoptions. It was to have a legal connection in whatever way possible. And I think in a really old comic, Dick has a dream where he's living in the manor as an adult still with Bruce. Bruce has a portrait of them together. They eat breakfast together in their pajamas or underwear, and spend all their time together. Batman regularly saves Robin over civilians and for his relationships, sometimes they wouldn't work out simply because of Dick. It worked this way for many Superheroes and their sidekicks in the "golden age" of comics! Batman has always had queer undertones since his creation but adding Robin into the mix just proved this. Like it or not, Bruce and Dick had sexual and romantic implications to their relationship since the character was first introduced in the 40s.

As for Old characteristics, in the New 52 i feel as though some of the characters have been washed down do their base characteristics. They lack depth in a way some characters don't or in a way some do, particularly in fanon. Dick's possessive originally and I see people talking about his anger issues as a child a lot, especially in comparison to Jason's Robin run, but either way - the characters have changed throughout the years. That doesn't mean that people can't cling on to their old relationships or even their old personalities. People are so fond of making Jason insane and crazy and Hella mean when in recent adaptations, he's a normal vigilante for all intents and purposes. He's not even a crime lord anymore, I'm pretty sure he still owns the Iceberg Lounge. That's all to say that the boys used to be a lot closer than they are now, especially Tim and Dick and Dick and Bruce.

The conclusion to my explanation to her is that batcest is much of the same as any other ships - picking and choosing what to take from canon to put two people together into a relationship that you like. It's a work of fiction and while that's important to remember, it doesn't say anything about you in real life! you don't enjoy real life incest if you like JayTim. That's all to say si that there's reasons behind it that some people like and some people don't. She wasn't swayed by my answer but accepted it since she couldn't deny that the Batfamily has been explored on and their relationships together so much more than their relationships with anyone else, canon or fanon.

[lambergeier]

2024 comics post

broooooooooooo. what the fuck HAPPENED.

the actual cause of all this: i read some really funny fic by ao3 user deadchannelradio, then i got emma to watch some old teen titans with me, then we watched the under the red hood movie, then i read some more fanfiction, almost entirely bad, then i caved and checked what the public library had available to borrow comics-wise. which turned out to be a lot. and then i bought the DCU subscription. and now here we are. this is going to be in approximately chrono order, and there will be no bolded recommendations. read only what big 2 comics you can justify to god.

tom taylor's nightwing, vols. 1-5 (issues 78-105 i think) plus fear state. my first foray back into big 2 comics since my mcu-era marvel situation in high school and college. haha, these are kinda cute, i thought. simplistic, but the art is gorgeous, i said. i would be happy to buy these as floppies at my local store, i theorized. like some kind of idiot. like some kind of naive child.

batman/superman: world's finest, #1-ongoing. waid and mora just too fucking good. i love nonsense, and to put nonsense in my mouth. would actually consider buying the first volume as a tpb it's so fun except for the massive, classically racist, unforced L of making another culture's normal nuanced folk hero (ne'zha) into a demon from hell for just like, no reason. hello? also love mark waid just doing whatever the fuck he wants with the kingdom come continuity. it's his house. no one can stop him. still reading this one as new issues go up on DCU.

world's finest: teen titans, #1-6. loved this also. i also haven't read any og teen titans (emma read all of pre-crisis NTT while i was reading nightwing, so the early children remain firmly in her realm of expertise) but she also agreed that it was cute. waid is just fun. like what are we supposed to do.

shazam 2023, #1-6. see above re: waid and his powers. big shout out to dan mora, as ever, but BIIIIIG shout out to colorist alejandro sanchez, who i truly think made this arc. girl those WATERCOLOR EFFECTS!!

robin 2021, #1-17. read this and super sons at about the same time, officially dipping my toe into the damian waters. solid, loved the issue of all the other robins chasing after him, him and dick love each other for REAL. i also like his little goth girlfriend, and his manga habit. felt like a kinda ham-fisted attempt to give damian his own story without being willing to set him up with his own status quo, a la bludhaven, but what can you do.

super sons, #1-16. children's comics for sure, but with a surprising amount of blood in them? wasn't quite certain of the marketing angle on that, but i LOVED jon and damian they are BABIES. i also like every time clark is like, my son, please, never listen to damian. his father is a lunatic. for sure never listen to his father either. that was cute. shame this was cut so short lmao.

tim drake: robin, #1-6. offensively, offensively bad. i didn't even really know tim yet but this was like. please christ in heaven gay people have to be worthier of better comics than this.

batgirl 2000, #1-37. i know this is widely-loved, but it actually didn't get me until like #12 or so? if that? i love cass, but the art was rough for me, and it couldn't carry me for the early non-verbal comics. her shit with shiva was great tho. cass you are fully insane my girl

under the red hood and lost days. ICONIC!! JASON TODD MY RATIONAL KING!!!

robins: being robin. did not like this. trite. also did not like dick's manbun: a real issue.

batman: year one. oughhhhh what if the classics are good actually. and unfortunately. mazzucchelli and lewis are so fucking good, like lewis in particular..... what even is left to be said. the art alone is Just That Good. also bruce wayne and jim gordon are kissing with tongue for real

robin: year one. mmmmmm good. dick grayson your problems. also i still love harvey dent. possibly my favorite batman villain. symptom of having watched a lot of batman begins/read my one random copy of the long halloween an extensive number of times as a teen

batgirl: year one. had some great moments, but did not like it nearly as much as robin y1. i do think this is due to the sexism. i like when babs punched infant dick in the solar plexus tho!

batman: urban legends - specifically the cheer arc with jason. i really liked this but i'm not sure i'll feel the same in a year or so. i think this was a pretty deft way to get jason to drop lethal violence without betraying his own justified belief in the power of lethal violence (rational king), and thus bring him back into the family fold, but of course bringing him back into the fold is itself a fraught project, and his character as a whole is so uncertain (as i understand) since the new 52 so like. i think it did what it was trying to do quite well (and i loved how insane bruce appeared! compared to jason!) but should it have been trying to do all that? an open question!

devin grayson's gotham knights, #1-24. WELL AS IT WOULD HAPPEN THESE ARE MAYBE THE BEST BATCOMICS I READ ALL YEAR. listen i am so aware of devin grayson's many sins. but these are the original "what does it mean for bruce to have all these fucking teenagers" comics, and, so far in my reading, they remain the undisputed best. everyone's just been rehashing her since, and it hasn't been nearly as good. she's got the touch (profound fandom-aligned insanities)

batman: murderer/fugitive. put an order in for the recently-released 1100 page $125 omnibus just this afternoon. It's Good.

robin vol 1: reborn (tim drake). idk the exact issues on this, collects tim's first few post-tlpod batman issues, plus his first miniseries. tim drake by god do i care you.

lmao okay the post editor is starting to lag like a motherfucker. posting this then putting the next half in a reblog

[msfcatlover]

Duke in the Reverse!Robins AU be like…

”Eldest daughter syndrome? What eldest daughter syndrome? Nah, just because I’m the oldest does not mean I have eldest daughter syndrome. Sure, I’ve had to mediate between Damian & Bruce, or Steph & Bruce, or help certain Titans find a middle ground, but that’s just being a good leader. And yeah, I’m protective of the younger kids, but that’s just what any responsible adult in my position would do.”

*finds out one of the members of his team has such bad civilian trauma they need to straight-up quit hero work*

“Oh shit… I fucked this up. I was too focused on my own problems, how the fuck did I miss this? Okay, okay. I was already burning out trying to juggle being Gotham’s only daytime hero and single-handedly leading the Titans. I need to pick one. And find some way to make it up to Grant. Jesus fuck, how did I miss this…”

*Tim becomes Cass’s apprentice. Steph & Cass start arguing more often. Steph has her biggest fight with Bruce yet. Steph goes missing.*

*Steph dies*

“After that fight with Bruce, no one backed her up. She didn’t know anyone was supporting her. She died thinking none of us were on her side. If any one of us had actively taken her side, instead of getting distracted with our own messes, maybe this wouldn't have happened. Oh, but am I really expecting Damian or Bruce to be intelligent about feelings? Am I really expecting tact from Cass? I know them too well; it should’ve been me, shouldn’t it? I can’t believe I managed to fuck up worse than I did with Grant…”

*Luna gets taken away*

“Look at what you’ve done, Bruce! Look what you’ve fucking done! You’re tearing this family apart! We all promised to look out for her if anything happened to Steph, and you’re just going to force every single one of us to break those promises?! You’re going to rip away the last piece of Steph we had?!? Look at Dami & Cass! Look at them! You did this!”

*finds out Damian’s training for Tim to be Shadow uses all the LoA techniques he refused to use for Steph, making it borderline-through-outright abusive, almost certainly to try to drive Tim off by making him too miserable to continue*

“I. I can’t fucking believe this. I can’t… I can’t believe it took me so long to realize. Damian, nobody is happy about this, but fuck you. I thought you were trying to be better, you absolute fucking asshole! And I… I don’t even have the excuse of not knowing half of the involved parties this time, or being away, or too busy, I was just looking away because I didn’t want to think about Tim taking Steph’s mantle. I should’ve fucking stopped this the first time Tim came back from Bludhaven. God fucking dammit, how do I keep failing the kids in my care in the same fucking way, over & over again?!”

*was all the way at the other end of the room & looking in the wrong direction to have enough forewarning to actually save Tim from being shot*

“I… I… I… I’m literally the only person who could’ve fucking stopped this. I have all the training, all the abilities, but I went to refill my punch glass, and now Timmy might never walk again. I mean, absolutely blame the asshole who pulled the trigger, but Tim & I were in the same fucking room. Who would even put a hit out on Tim Wayne? There’s no way Tim doesn’t know who’s behind this, but he won’t tell me because he doesn’t trust me, because of course he doesn’t! Look at my track record! When it matters most, I let down the people I love. My parents, Grant, Steph, Tim…”

*Jason becomes Shadow.*

*The Tower fight happens.*

*Jason gets kidnapped by the Joker.*

*Bruce “dies,” and Jason runs away to have the Red Robin arc.*

*Dick only begrudgingly puts up with Duke because Duke’s rather overbearing expressions of protectiveness support are not meshing well with Dick’s “stuck on anger til I personally catch my parents’ murderer” issue*

“…If anyone needs me, I’ll be screaming in the closet.”

[phantom-dc]

Dad Hood - part 14

Bruce was getting a weird feeling. He thought that with Jason coming clean about having a kid and with he misunderstanding about Jason being cloned cleared up that things would go back to normal. But the way his sons were acting told him that there was still something he didn’t know. It likely had something to do with Danny, but he wasn’t sure what. Danny was a sweet kid, always eager to help others and make new friends. Bruce had still no clue what Dick, Tim and Jason were hiding from him and it nagged at him. He was suspicious that it was something big, otherwise one of them would’ve ratted the others out by now. If not to him then to Duke, Steph or Cass. Even Alfred didn’t know what was going on, and there were times Bruce suspected him of being an all-knowing being only pretending to be human. Bruce decided to keep an close eye. It’s not like he could investigate the Joker case any further before J’ohn came back from Mars anyway.

‘Grandpa Bruce, is daddy’s doll dry yet?’

Bruce looked down. Danny was looking at him with big eyes, waiting for the paint on their self-made Red Hood action figure to dry. Checking it with his finger, Bruce found it had dried and was ready.

‘It seems he is, champ. Here you go, you can play all you want with him. Be careful not to break him, ok?’

After Bruce handed Danny the action figure, Danny got really excited. He immediately ran back to his other toys so he could play out the stories his uncle’s told him about. Though they were made child-friendly, of course. Danny immediately gathered the Batman, Nightwing and Red Robin toys. He even had a Mr. Freeze and Riddler toy. Mr. Freeze had no problem with his visage being used as long as a portion of the money went to his wife’s cure. Riddler had seen it as a contest with Batman, so his toy even came with pre-recorded riddles! Seeing Danny play with them, Bruce turned to the other people in the room.

‘Dang, Bruce. You’re really playing into the grandpa role, aren’t you?’

Jason smirked at Bruce. It was a good thing that there wasn’t much happening in Gotham. With things calm in the city, he could stay a bit longer and the family could bond. Jason couldn’t remember the last time things were like this. He started to wonder if he should tell everyone how Danny took care of his Lazarus problem… Nah, they would just ask more questions and he really didn’t want to put his Soul on display again. Never again.

‘You’re not going anywhere, Red Hood! We’ll skin you alive and turn you into a coffee table!’ Danny said, holding the Mr. Freeze toy.

Dick, Jason, Tim and Bruce looked at Danny. Where had he picked up that language? Sure, Jason wasn’t always able to watch what he said around Danny, but he never threatened to turn someone into furniture? Maybe he should try it though. He bet he could make it work, with his reputation and all.

‘You are going down! The Red Hood never loses! Pew pew!’ Danny was pretending the Red Hood toy could shoot lasers from his hands.

Dick thought it was adorable. Did Danny think Jason had laser guns? Did he see those in cartoons? Maybe Danny liked those sci fi cartoons that were popular nowadays. With all the glow-in-the-dark stars Danny put up in his room it was obvious that Danny loved space. He wonders if Danny had those stars in his old house.

‘I am the Question Mark, and you will question why you ever thought you could win!’ Danny was holding the Riddler toy, and for some reason putting up a mad-scientist voice.

Bruce was worried. What had Danny been through that he knew about stuff like this? The threats and the obvious mad-scientist. Did the person Danny was copying the voice off the same one as the person that tried to clone him? It made him think. After Jason had told him that Danny had adoptive parents out there, he had avoided the issue. He’d been too happy to have a new family member. But now? Would it be safe for Danny? He should investigate these ‘parents’, so he could decide if it would be safer for Danny to stay here. If he was going to stay, Bruce knew that he would be fine. Everyone loved Danny, and Jason was being a very good father-figure to him. Bruce could tell that Jason loved his son very much, and would do anything for him. Somewhere, deep down, Bruce wished he could say the same thing.

‘You’re defeated, Question-Mark-man! No evil people will harm the innocents while the Red Hood is here!’ Danny put the Red Hood toy’s foot on the Riddler toy, in a triumphant pose.

Jason smiled. It was nice to be his kids hero. He felt a hand on his shoulder. Bruce looked at him with a very proud look in his eyes.

‘Jason, I must say, I’m proud of you. You’re a good father.’

And then Danny phased the Riddler toy into the floor.

Bruce, Jason and Dick were looking at Danny. Danny, who had just phased a toy into the floor. Seeing the gears turning in Bruce’s head, Tim quickly scooped up the kid and left the room. As Bruce slowly turned to look at Jason and Dick, Jason decided to make the first move:

‘IT WAS DICK’S FAULT!’

Dick was shocked by that. They immediately started arguing. Dick accused Jason of throwing him under the bus. Jason accused Dick of leaving Danny alone in public. Dick threw back that Jason didn’t warn him about Danny being so much to handle. Jason asked why on Earth he told his 5-year old child that he puts people in the ground, this never would’ve-

‘ENOUGH!’

Bruce’s voice boomed through the room, silencing the 2 brothers. He was furious. His grandson was the reason the Joker was dead, and his own children tried to hide it from him! Bruce took a deep breath. Dick and Jason were looking guilty. Bruce was reminder of how they looked when they got into trouble as kids, but this was serious. The fight the two had did reveal a few things to Bruce.

‘So, Danny is a meta? And you, Dick, told him that bad people are to be buried alive?’

Dick didn’t look him in the eyes:

‘He wanted to know what Jason did for work, and I was overwhelmed and it just came out? I knew I messed up as soon as I said it, but Dany didn’t seem to care. I never thought he would-’

Bruce cut him off. He needed more information, not excuses.

‘Does Danny realize he killed someone?’

Jason said Danny didn’t, at least Jason thinks he didn’t. Danny never showed signs of that, but with all the things that Danny does do it might have slipped through. Jason still isn’t sure what things Danny tells him are real and what is a child’s interpretations. Bruce sighed. That was good, at least they didn’t have another trauma to deal with.

‘Ok, we can deal with this. But I do need to know what Danny can do before we can make plans for him. Is phase-shifting his only power?’

Jason looked at Dick with a strange look, that promised nothing good. He pulled out a tiny black notebook, scribbled something in it, claiming to be updating the list and handed it to Bruce.

Invisibility

Cryokinesis

Flight

Soul-pulling-out-powers???

Destructive scream

Super strength

(Flying) Superspeed

Photokineses

Shields

Doesn't need to breath (as often)?

Color changing (Camouflage? Different form?)

Phase-shifting

Bruce read it over. He looked at Jason.

‘Jason. This is like half the Justice League’s powers.’

Jason just nods. Dick tells him this is only what they’ve seen Danny do. They have no clue what else he can do. Danny’s memory is iffy, and couldn’t give them a list himself.

‘We need to figure out where Danny came from. We put this off long enough, but this amount of powers is concerning. I’m guessing you were hiding more form me, so the both of you need to come clean about everything.’

Jason sighed. He knew this was coming. He told Bruce everything. How Danny just showed up, to the Lazarus blood, to being cloned, to being younger than he should be and everything. By the end, Bruce had turned slightly pale. The three decided to use the Bat-computer to find out more.

When they got there, Tim was already working on Danny’s case. He managed to track Danny from the orphanage in Europe that Talia had left him at. There Danny had been adopted by a family called ‘the Fenton’s’, but he had lost sight of them after they moved to the US. No matter how hard Tim tried, he couldn’t find anything. It was almost like there was some sort off wall blocking all information. As much as he hated to admit it, Tim didn’t think that technology would help them much further. Bruce thought for a bit. If technology couldn’t help…

‘Good thing Constantine still owes me a favor, then.’

First - Previous - Next - AO3

[celaenaeiln]

My connection went off so idk if my ask just sent but. I was wondering your thoughts on post Robin Jason, because idk what his deal is at this point and writers don't seem to either. I don't think he's a heartless killer who should be hated and hunted by the entire family but I don't like this fanon "Jason is 100% right about everything and everyone else is the problem" idea either, when they put him in the family he feels really out of place and random and it's just.. one moment he's trying to kill Tim and the next he's the best guy ever with the softest heart?? I don't know there has to be a middle ground right?? I just can't get into Red Hood as a character due to this

Thank you for being so incredibly smart, reasonable, and intelligent.

You're exactly right. I think this is the same issue that's been affecting the Robin Dick vs Robin Jason mischaracterizations as well as the batgirls' that have been predominant in the fandom post 2020. Tim and Damian's motivations and personality have stayed the same from when they entered to now but Dick, Jason, Cass, and Steph have all grown as characters. Who they started out as, they've changed from then to now which has led to some confusion about their personality and motivations.

For Jason in particular - no, he shouldn't be hunted to the ends of the Earth for the things he did. He was hurting and acted out of pain. However it's irresponsible to refute those actions and blame other characters for them.

Jason was originally meant to be a villain. He was supposed to be like Freeze, a sympathetic villain - a character who despite their evil actions is understandable. All Freeze wants is his wife, Nora, back. He loves her and commits horrible acts that don't justify his actions but it makes sense. You're supposed to feel complicated about characters like him because they point out exactly why morality is grey. What Freeze does is wrong, but he does it for the right reasons. It's ultimately still wrong which is why he gets imprisoned.

That is Jason. Jason's actions were never supposed to okay. In what universe would creators who spent half a century working on and developing characters be okay with another character trying to kill them? What about that is acceptable? But it's not just trying to kill Tim (who only escaped by outsmarting Jason) or trying to kill Damian, the crimes he did are not acceptable.

He bombed Gotham just because despite knowing he didn't need to. He was willing to kill innocent children, men, women, and civilians for Dick and Damian were chasing him, after they helped him.

Batman and Robin (2009) Issue #25

In the Red Robin Comics, he was willing to use children as bait during a gang war.

Robin (1993) Issue #177

Not to mention Mia Dearden.

But at the same time, he killed people who hurt children

Red Hood: Lost Days Issue #3

Initially Jason's morality was a swinging pendulum. He was as likely to kill kids as he was to protect them. He didn't care about the lives of civilians if it meant getting away or completing his plans.

Batman/Superman (2013) Issue #26

Here Superman says he wants to save a kid so Jason argues that to save him, they need to poison the environment and wipe out several countries.

That's why Bruce struggles with Jason so much. Over his lack of care for people's lives. It's not the murdering of criminals that Batman is caught up on which is where I believe the misunderstanding in fanon comes from. It's his fear that by his own hands, Bruce created a deadlier version of the man who killed his parents.

Batman vs Robin Issue #3

So no it's not fair to blame everyone for Jason's mistakes and claim him innocent, but it's also not fair to say Bruce had nothing to do with Jason's mental state. If he had shown a little less hesitance at the reappearance of Jason in Under the Red Hood, if he had shown a little more love then Jason probably wouldn't have gone as crazy as he did after coming back.

Because he saw Jason killing everyone, Bruce fell into his worst possible explanation of Jason, knowing the pain he was going through but succumbing to selfish actions to protect himself.

Jason's tough to deal with for writers because even when the batfamily reaches out, Jason is the one that burns his own bridges. When Dick begged Jason to take his hand during the Battle for the Cowl, when Dick and Damian helped Jason save his friend during Batman and Robin (2009), when Bruce saved Jason and fought alongside him against a couple members of the Secret Society of Supervillains, Jason immediately turned around and killed people and bragged about it.

In Batman Urban Legends, Jason tells Bruce that he has given up guns to which Bruce is grateful but it's also not for him. It's a sign that Jason is turning a new leaf especially given how caring he was with the kid, calling him Blue Hoodie. That was so sweet of him. The current Batman family comics are a sign of things changing between Jason and the family. What has happened up until now is not the family's fault, especially when they've reached out for the sole purpose of extending an olive branch only to have it burned and tied to a person in return. But now things are slowly changing and writers are trying to show that.

Jason's story is story of growth. He didn't come back to save people, he came specifically for the sake of hurting Bruce. But over the years, the repeated attempts of the family (Dick and far less Bruce) of bringing Jason back into the fold has helped him move past his anger. To slowly become adjusted and settle down.

Writers have struggled to know what to do with a character that canonically wants to be included in the family but rebuffs their every attempt to include him. They finally figured out the problem was Bruce - hence his fight against Jason and his exit in Gotham War. I'm assuming now that Jason will become more involved in Batman comics.

As a character currently though, I think of him as a lone ranger. He works independently but he'll show up for family meetings and big events. He'll also join family dinners if he's coerced but for the most part he likes to run on his own or with his team.

[electricprincess96]

Asking out of curiosity, but why do ya dislike Damian Wayne? I ask this not in a acussitory manner mind, as my only exposure to Damian is in non comics material such as those animated movies he popped up in. More so curiosity cause he seems to be a very controversial character among the main comics fandom itself.

He is controversial. There are a few reasons, some I could change my mind on with better writing and others would take a lot more for me to get behind him. I'll start by saying if you're reading this and are a Damian fan don't continue, you aren't gonna like what I have to say so don't both hate reading for the sake of it.

Firstly the concept of the Bat Family for the most part up until that point was about Found Family. Let me be clear I'm not saying it was sunshine and rainbows and they all got along great all the time BUT it was about broken people finding each other and trying to work together to make a difference. The very concept of giving Bruce a blood son ruins that, you need only look at most Damian fans when the debate on who should be Bruce's successor comes up, they will always say Damian despite the fact he has shown NOTHING to prove he deserves it, their only reason is he's the blood son. While yes being both biological and adopted kids is a thing that exists and most real people can do it and it works most DC writers are not adopted parents and dont know the specifics of how you depict that balance and it shows. It reeks of weird blood purist, anti-adoption vibes that just aren't good. Like the rise in "bad parent Bruce Wayne" towards Jason and Tim and some of the others (not sure he knows Cass's name anymore) conveniently corrolates with demon brats creation. Coupled with the fact on more than one occasion writers have seemed to make it seem like Damian does indeed mean more just cause he's blood related. I just don't like it. I wasn't overly fond of Helena Wayne (although she was better cause she was from another world instead of the canon one) and I don't like Damian for the same reason.

Secondly he was forced as Robin. As I said in a recent post up until Damian the role of Robin had only really been changed when it was necessary. Jason was made Robin because DC wanted Robin to be a kid again but readers liked the storylines they were getting with young adult Dick Grayson so they promoted Dick from sidekick and created Jason Todd. Likewise when Jason died there was no Robin, Dick wasn't about to go back to being Robin and Jason was dead thus Tim was created to fill a role that needed filling. Even Stephanie was made Robin due to Tim being unavailable for a long period of time (i dont remember the specifics but i think it had to do with his family finding out about Robin) so even when she lasted not even a year, she was still filling a vacamcy instead of being forced into a role that was already filled. Damian however was just created. They had not taken the proper steps to develop Tim out of being Robin naturally (and before people come at me with "oh he had plenty of time" Dick Grayson got FORTT YEARS and Damian is coming up on nearing 2 decades so shut up) and thus his creation has directly led to the problem we have right now in DC were we have TWO Robins cause they demoted Tim back to being Robin when Red Robin didn't work out (and 3 batgirls but that ones Barbara Gordon's fault). Coupled with the fact his introduction came right after the revival of Jason Todd thus basically screeching to a halt any real meaningful development that plotline could have had because suddenly DC had a shiny new toy to play with. Damian's creation was a turning point for Batman comics and not a good one, because it contributed to the derailing of multiple characters arcs and plotlines and some have still not fully recovered.

Thirdly his character upon introduction was already redundant. He's a child raised by assassins.... OK well we already have Cassandra Cain. He's a Robin willing to kill and will really test the Bat Fams moral compass. OK well as I said we'd already revived Jason Todd and he was already taking the fight to the Bat on the no kill rule. Literally the only unique thing he had upon introduction was that he was a blood relation to Bruce which I personally do not think should mean anything. But DC starting from that point going forward started to have a horrible undercurrent of blood purity. The only thing I can think that he is semi unique on is being biracial but even then not entirely his since Cassandra is biracial as well AND they never do anything with him being biracial. Plus if they really wanted to they could have reconned one of the existing Robins to be biracial without derailing multiple other characters plotlines.

Fourthly. He's an obnoxious and annoying brat 90% of the time. Like I get it, being raised by Talia (although there's conflicting information on of he was actually raised at all since the timeline does not seem to add up for his age and at one point he was grown in an artificial womb and artificially aged but that's been retconned but the timeline still don't add up if he's not artificially aged somewhat. His back story is a mess I ain't gonna make heads or tails of it) will inevitably result in a very arrogant child afterall Ra's and Talia's egos rival Lex Luthors. BUT they want us to believe at times he can back that up. And I'm sorry I don't care how skilled you are as a child assassin, you are still a child. Like in the Animated movies he should not be able to beat Deathstroke in a straight 1 to 1 fight. He just shouldn't. Both are highly skilled assassins sure but Slade is like 6 times Damian's age, double his size and at least 3 times his weight. There is also the fact that his dark, brooding, arrogant, cruel character sort of worked when he was Dick Grayson's Robin cause it was flipping the established dynamics for Batman and Robin. But when he's Bruce's Robin it doesn't work, we no longer have that little bit of sunshine that Robin is meant to bring to Batman (and don't think I haven't noticed how Batman's character has got crueler and darker since Damian became his Robin) while Batman is meant to be a guiding hand for Robin to keep him on the right track.

Fifthly. For Damian's character arc to really work/make sense ot has to be acknowledged that Talia is not a good mother. At best she's deliberately raising him in a dangerous environment and at worse she is actively abusive. It's the only way you can justify half of his character traits and why he's even here in the first place. Here's the issue for all I dislike Talia as a character... I don't believe she's an abusive mother. One thing that seems to be consistent for Talia was that she did love her family. Talia's flaws for me are in her inability to choose a side and her entitlement towards Bruce and other men (well and the whole worldwide genocide of anyone not League of Assassins). Now I am more willing to accept this one as just being how new Talia is but I don't blame some of her fans who feel miffed about this however they do have to acknowledge that there's no real way to do his story without her either being an incompetent parent or a down right bad one (but don't worry Talia fans Bruce is also awful nowadays so she's not alone there....)

Now his arrogance and overall unlikable character can absolutely be fixed with good writing. I hated him in the Animated movies (kid you grew up in the mountains leaving to kill you SHOULD NOT BE LECTURING BRUCE FUCKING WAYNE ABOUT STOCKS) but I'm quite liking him in Boy Wonder where it's actually tackling his own sense of entitlement and showing that he needs to learn from his predecessors rather than acting like he's better than them purely because he shares dna with Bruce.

BUT the conceptual issues I have won't go away quite so easily. It's why if I'm asked if I could wipe one Robin from existence, it will always be him. He could be written wonderfully, he could get a comic run that is the best written thing ever and I will still always say him when asked that question. And I know I'm not alone on that.

[purple-crusader]

Stephcass Week day 6 is up! Today we deep dive into some fun stuff, which is my take on Cassie's problem with finding identity beside her vigilante persona. Like I said, very fun. It's focused on Steph and Cass' free time as civilians, so I think it fits the prompt, even if they are still vigilantes on the side.

Hope you like it!

STEPHCASS WEEK Day 6: Civilians

Words: 1,188

@stephcassweek

You know things got fucked up, when Cassandra Cain, Black Bat, the daughter of two of the deadliest assassins on Earth, Lady Shiva and David Cain, as well as trained from birth to be a living killing machine, comes back from a fight with a broken arm.

Bane returned to Gotham, with the most powerful version of Venom created yet in his veins and decided the best people to celebrate that occasion with are his friends from the local crime-fighting family. When Batman and Robin realized they could not defeat the man alone, they had to call for reinforcements, those being Red Robin, Nightwing, Red Hood, Batwing, Batwoman and aformentioned Black Bat. It took around an hour of non-stop, brutal fighting and crashing most of the Gotham docks to finally put down the villain, but they managed to do it.

One of the factors in defeating him sadly being Cassandra's sacrifice by pushing away Damian from Bane's hit. She exposed herself, which gave the rest time to gather around the man and finally tie him down and inject an anti-Venom into his veins. Before that happened though, the hit landed on Cass' arm, breaking it and making her unconscious.

Fast forward 4 hours later, Cassandra woke up in the Bat-Cave's med-bay with Alfred and Bruce by her side, telling her what happened. "Your arm is broken in 6 different spots, Madame Cassandra. Recovering from that will take months..." Said Alfred. "I'm sorry, young lady, but in this time we need to put you off your vigilante activities."

It was the first time Cass had to hear those words during her vigilante career. She had never taken enough damage to get benched. Hell, she had never even caught a cold. Her training wouldn't allow it, but Cassandra herself was always incredibely careful with all of her moves, because she knew how much Gotham and her family needs her in the field. Now she's supposted to take a few months long break from that life? She did not answer any of Bruce or Alfred's further questions, just sat on the bed numbly.

For Cass it was like a death penalty, but someone took the news as an opportunity for good, this 'someone' being one and only Stephanie Brown, Cassandra's lovely girlfriend. It's not like she did not feel the pain her partner was experiencing, but she also thought that the dark-haired woman sooner or later needed a vacation and she did not want to wait for their honeymoon for that to happen (and even then Cass would probably pack her suit and change into it the moment she saw a kitten not able to get off a tree).

Cass was advised by Bruce to spend the next four months living in Stephanie's apartment, to be a bit further from the vigilante activity that she would be at home. It lined up perfectly with various activities Steph had planned for them to fill Cass' time during her treatment.

Besides vigilantism, Cassandra was taking online private classes to broaden her opportunities if she wanted to take on a job and generally were supposted to teach her more about the world. These taken up to five hours daily for her. Besides that? She was all free. Usually she'd spent the rest of that time training, working on cases, sleeping, so that she could then have no problem running around on patrols all night. Of course she also always tried to find time to spend with Stephanie, besides when they were cracking a case or playing rooftop tag, so it's not like she had no idea what to do in her free time. That didn't mean the first few days weren't rough for her.

That's where Stephanie came in. The activities she had prepared were generally stuff to bond over or use some skills for. It was stuff like learning to bake new things together, going on walks to the park, the library, the museum. Steph would love to teach Cass more about knitting (a little hobby of hers) but it was definitely hard with her broken hand. She loved to watch though. For lazier nights, Steph would put one of the films or TV shows on the long list she had prepared for her girlfriend to watch one day to be up to date with the pop culture.

And Cassandra absolutely loved all of these things and was really grateful how involved her partner was in making this time better for her. But she could not shake off the feeling that she should be out there, helping people, that she was... wasting time? No, Cass would never say that about time spent with Steph. Yet the feeling was still there.

Something almost broke when the women went on a quiet date in a local coffee shop. It did not end up as quiet as they wanted, when they saw Duke and Bruce drop into park across the street, fighting Mr. Freeze. They did not need help, so Steph was not running to change into her Batgirl suit. It was tempting to Cass. She got up and almost ran out of the shop, when Steph grabbed her healthy hand.

"What are you doing?!" She said quietly but firmly, for it to get to Cass' head. The woman was looking outside the window, as she saw the two vigilantes and the villain leave the park and her sight. She sat back with tears in her eyes. Steph was immediately alarmed. She slided over her chair to seat closer to Cass and hugged her, the dark-haired woman laying her head on the blonde's shoulder.

"I'm sorry." Cass finally raised her eyes to look at Stephanie. "I just- I'm... I love what you do for me." She said taking on of Steph's hands and caressing it. "But I miss this. I can't fight this feeling. I feel so useless... when I can't be out there." More tears rolled down her cheeks.

Steph felt pity for her girlfriend and wasn't really shocked. Cass was made for fighting. First as David Cain's weapon, then she forged it into her mission to help people of Gotham. She was never benched this long and it definitely made her undergo a little identity crisis. But what was Stephanie for, if not going through it with Cassandra?

"Listen, babe, it's okay you feel this way. I'm not mad, I know you have good intentions, but I need you to know, that you are someone bigger than just Black Bat. You are Cassandra Cain, a talented dancer, loving daughter, sister, friend and partner. You are your own person." Steph smiled fondly and kissed Cass on the forehead. She smiled as well.

It got kinda better for Cass after that. Sure, the need to come back to being a vigilante was tingling. But she knew it would come back to her soon. Right now, she had time to pursue things she never thought about before and she wanted to cherish that. Well, maybe even after coming back on the field, she could make some changes to her schedule. To find a moment for Cassandra Cain.

[moosemink]

Workin alone looks different

⋆˖⁺‧₊☽ CH3 - The Shadow ☾₊‧⁺˖⋆

Pairing: No actual Romance just some mentioned, JayRoy | TimKon | BirdFlash Characters: Batfam | Justice League Word count: 2.793 A/N: Praying I did my bby Cass justice in this CH. AO3 Masterlist for W.A.L.D.

‧⋆ ✧˚₊‧⋆. ✧˚₊‧⋆‧⋆˖⁺‧₊☽◯☾₊‧⁺˖⋆‧⋆ ✧˚₊‧⋆. ✧˚₊‧⋆‧

Oliver really didn’t like the fact that he had to do what he did.

But this mission involved not just his city’s rogues but also one of the Bat’s. Clock King had decided that it was time to make new friends and to expand his reach. Why he chose to work with Gotham’s Penguin of all people ? Oliver had no idea.

He just knew that that meant he had to inform the dark knight and certainly work with him to take down the two new besties.

It’s not that he didn’t like the man, he just wasn’t the easiest to work with. He was always so serious and sue Oliver he liked to joke around, especially on stake outs. He just wasn’t one to not at least crack one joke.

Oh well no way around it because if the caped crusader finds out he wasn’t informed he’ll be lectured like Barry and Hal were recently. The horror tale of the five hour long lecture given by Red Hood had made the rounds, being told to all league members. A tale of warning to not fuck up the way Barry and Hal had.

And the only one who could top that lecture was the one and only Batman, after all he was the one Red Hood must’ve learned it from, being the Bat’s oldest son and all.

Oliver still can’t quite believe it even after watching the tapes of the day it all happened three times. He had laughed at his friends expense but had to admit he probably would’ve been right there with them. He tends to stop thinking and starts to share the singular brain cell that Barry and Hal keep passing between one another.

Ollie did also note the clear favoritism Red Hood seemed to have towards Wonder Woman. That info would one day come in handy, he could feel it. He just didn’t know why yet.

So Oliver, wishing to safe himself from a masterful lecture from the Dark Knight, had called said vigilante. He had called and had been promptly send to voicemail.

The archer stared angrily at his phone, he tried again. This time the call was answered after the fifth ring.

“You’ve reached the Batcave, how may I help you ?”, a friendly voice chirped.

Oliver was confused and sputtered for a few seconds as his brain tried to understand what the fuck he just heard and how that was definitely not Batman.

“You’re currently speaking to Red Robin, if that might help you.”, The Young voice stated, clearly knowing that it would. With all the talk about Hood these past few days, Ollie had almost forgot about the other son.

“It did, I was trying to reach Batsy, is he available ? Are you allowed to take his calls ?” Oliver asked warily.

“Yup.”, the teen popped the p, “Sooo, B is out at the moment but I’ll see if I can help you. If not I can at least relay the message.” The young vigilante tried to sound bored but a hint of excitement leaked into his voice.

The archer hesitated for a moment but he really wanted to take care of the whole Clock King x Penguin business as soon as possible so he relented and shared his problem, slightly hoping to just be told to deal with it alone.

“Quite interesting, thank you for sharing this information. As per the protocol for a situation like this and with the confirmation I’m sure I’ll get in a sec, I’ll send you someone to take Batman’s place to aid you and bring the Penguin back to Gotham. Please hold the line.” Honest to god hold music started to play.

It played long enough that Oliver had already taken aim to throw his phone at the nearest wall but luckily for the device the music stopped and the teens voice chirped again.

“As expected I got the go ahead from B so reinforcements are en route. Have fun Green Arrow and please, if you treasure your life and limbs, be nice to them.” Oliver gulped at the last threat, it had been said in a perfect Bat growl, though it had sounded younger coming from Red Robin, it was effective all the same.

—————〰️▪️◾️⚫️◾️▪️〰️—————

30 minutes had passed when Oliver realized he hadn’t told Red Robin where to send the reinforcements to. He had said that it was in star city but certainly they wouldn’t just know where to go right ? Then again he is talking about the son of Batman, greatest detective and all that.

His thoughts were answered when he heard the roar of a motorcycle behind him.

He was on the roof top of a building. How the fuck did a bike get up here ?

He swirled around, mouth open and finger pointed, ready to ask that exact question when a fist planted it self deep into his stomach. He hadn’t heard them approach. Hadn’t expected anyone could get off a motorcycle that fast but he was keeling over in pain. Oliver was nearly kneeling over in pain but he quickly pulled himself together again and righted himself to fight his assailant.

He stopped when he was greeted by a familiar red helmet. Red Hood had attacked him. But why ?

“That was a message from Roy, for yesterday. Hope it hurt Goatee.” Hood drawled.

“You know Roy ?” The archer asked, holding his still hurting stomach and while slightly heaving for air.

“Ah guess I haven’t introduced myself yet, soon to be father in law.” There was clear amusement in the man’s voice despite his voice modulator.

Oliver stared at Hood confused for a few seconds, he doesn’t have any daughters- Then it clicked, Hood was talking about Roy. Roy had a boyfriend and it of course was an ex crime lord and the fucking Bat’s son. Why did it have to be Batman’s kid ? Why not a nice civilian or a simple goon ?

Of course it had to be a Bat.

Ollie stumbled backwards and sat down on the ledge of the rooftop, putting his head in his hands and sighing.

“Don’t cry.” A soft, small voice spoke up next to the archer. He startled and jumped at least three feet into the air.

The voice had come from a small shadow next to him. No, it wasn’t a shadow it was a person. Covered head to toe in black. Even their face was covered with a full mask beneath a hood. Their cape billowed behind them danced mesmerizingly in the dark. It reminded Oliver of Batman’s cape. The way it seemed to be one with the night, not a peace of fabric but rather a living shadow.

The shadow stood and by doing so the cape slipped of their shoulders, revealing a yellow bat across their chest, yellow details around their shoulders and a yellow utility belt around their waist. They walked over to Red Hood’s side, not making a sound as if they were actually a shadow. A skill Oliver knew only one person, or now group of people, to have perfected. The Bats.

“So now that introductions have been made,” Hood drawled and Oliver wanted to chime in that he hadn’t been told what the shadow like person was called but he guessed he wouldn’t get an answer as Hood just kept talking, “Imma be around for reinforcements but y’all probably won’t need it. I’ll just say this, if ya hurt her I’ll bury you alive. An’ believe me, that ain’t fun.”

The helmeted vigilante gave them a playful salute with two fingers. Oliver blinked and he had disappeared into the shadows, taking the motorcycle with him somehow. Leave it to a Bat to do impossible shit like that.

“Sooo, how to do this..?”, The archer looked between the small Bat and the warehouse which he had tracked Clock King and Penguin. He was unsure as he didn’t know how skilled his aid was. He went through about a million possible plans but his mind’s rambling was interrupted by two simple words,

“Keep up.” The shadow giggled and put her gloved hand over where her mouth would be. The archer was about to ask her what she meant when she simply leapt of the rooftop with an elegance Oliver had never seen before.

The signature sound of a grappling gun broke the archer out of his stupor and he jumped of the roof himself and followed the other vigilante. Which proved to be quite hard as she slipped in and out of shadows way too seamlessly to be natural. Not even Batman was that good at becoming one with the night. It truly was as if she was a shadow herself. No way she wasn’t a meta.

“So much for the no metas in Gotham rule.” He mumbled and a small giggle came from the shadows somewhere from above him.

Keeping up, as it turns out, was possibly the hardest thing he ever had to do and the rate at which goons simply dropped even though there seemingly had been nothing to warrant it was, quite frankly, scary as fuck.

The archer had to maybe shoot a handful of arrows by the time they reached their main targets. The young Bat was possibly the most efficient vigilante he had ever met, she was also the most terrifying. Not even Batman was this good. And she did it with unparalleled grace and beauty, she seemed to dance as her opponents dropped like flies.

Oliver had to admit that he had checked the pulse of a few goons here and there but they were all alive.

Taking down the two rogues turned out to be just as easy, since neither rogue had expected the shadow like vigilante to appear. They were able to take them down in a fraction of the time Ollie had expected. The rogues were defeated even before they had had the chance to start an evil monologue. Or any words for that matter.

—————〰️▪️◾️⚫️◾️▪️〰️—————

Oliver was glad that Hood was waiting for them outside, despite how their first meeting went, the shadow wasn’t much of a talker and he didn’t know what to do.

Hood walked towards them from where he had been leaning on his bike and even through the helmet Oliver could feel the glare that he guessed roughly translated to: ‘Pray she’s fine or it’s your funeral’.

As she walked up to the ex crime lord she moved her hands quickly gesturing wildly, Oliver was confused for a moment before he realized it probably was sign language.

Hood answered with a few quick signs himself and then held up his hand and got his requested high five. The black clad vigilante having to jump a little to reach the hand of the much taller man.

Oliver really wished he knew ASL, he really should if he was honest. He made a mental note to find himself a teacher as soon as he was home.

Before that he had to go back to the Watchtower though to debrief, at least that’s what the message on his phone said. He had gotten a text from none other than Batman so it was nonnegotiable.

Hood reassured him he’d take care of getting Penguin back to Gotham and would stick around until the SCPD had come to collect all the goons and Clock King.

So Oliver lead the way to the closest Zeta, though he guessed that, as a Bat, she already knew where it was.

The Watchtower was almost empty today, most members where probably asleep or where still on patrol in their own cities.

There was however a commotion coming from the tower’s kitchen. Curious as he was the archer had to check it out. Curious and mostly hungry.

The unmistakable smell of waffles reached his nose before he rounded the corner into the kitchen of the common room. Oliver almost tripped over his own feet as he spotted who was cooking in the league’s kitchen.

Clad in a fluffy purple hoodie with a dark purple skirt, which complemented the person’s blond hair, stood an unfamiliar girl. Said girl spun around and Oliver noted the purple domino on her face. ‘Another one ?!’ Was the first thing that popped into his head.

“Another one ?!”, was what also came out of his mouth. “I thought there were only supposed to be three ?”

The blond girl gave him a confused look, she tilted her head to the side, “What gave you that impression ?”

“I- I don’t know. Red Robin said he was a middle child so I guess we just assumed.” Oliver rubbed the back of his neck. Then he stilled, “You are one of them, right ? One of Batman’s brood ?”

“Depends on who you ask. Legally, no. Biologically, also no. Emotionally, yes. Though B wishes the first one was also true.”, she grinned at that and then turned around to prevent the waffles from burning as the waffle iron was already smoking quite a bit.

She opened the iron with practiced grace and plated up two waffles. She pushed one plate towards GA and gave him an inviting smile. The other plate she placed on the kitchen counter and pushed it towards the shadow like vigilante that Oliver had worked with. She signed her thanks, or at least he guessed she did, and to his surprise pulled down the mask covering her face.

Beneath she wore a black domino to cover her eyes but Oliver noted the black hair the other two children of the Bat shared. He wondered if that means that Batman had black hair.

As the blond teen turned back around to pour more batter onto the waffle iron she spoke again, “My name is Spoiler FYI. Not B’s daughter but family nonetheless.”

Spoiler turned around and casually leaned on the counter top, a sly smile crept onto her face as her eyes seemed to find something.

The something being the large Bat that walked into the common room adjacent to the kitchen. The Bat turned and gazed over the small gathering before him. He looked hesitant and like he wanted to turn on his heels and leave but with a small wave from the silent girl across from the Archer he seemed to throw that thought away.

The dark knight glanced at Green Arrow and then back at the other Bat. She gave him a look and he placed a hand on her shoulder as he fully turned towards the archer.

“Black Bat, my daughter.” He looked at Spoiler and opened his mouth but the blond cut him off.

“Too slow B, already introduced myself. You don’t get to claim me as your daughter.” She grinned a toothy grin at him and he grumbled something that Oliver was pretty sure wasn’t words.

A snort from the common room’s large sofa startled Oliver and he only then spotted Red Robin. The teen had clearly been sleeping, something the league had come to realize the teen didn’t do voluntarily. It was a wonder he had passed out in a normal place this time around.

Since finding out he existed a few weeks ago the league had found him in the vents, the kitchen cupboard, Batman’s bed (apparently it had the softest mattress, definitely not because the Bat had been of world for a few days longer than planned), the meeting room floor and on more than one occasion on the server room’s floor.

Always next to him his trusty laptop, which was not to be touched if you treasured your life. Kon, who had come to visit a few days after Red Robin’s introduction, had warned them all. Only a handful of people were able to touch Red Robin and his laptop. Evidently Superman was not part of that handful, he had tried to move Red after almost stepping on him in the hallway. He thanked the gods that day for his powers. A Batarang to the throat was not the way he wanted to go.

Green Arrow shook his head to push the memories of the past few weeks away. He wanted to address the Bats but as he looked up he realized that both Batman and Black Bat were gone, the ordered debrief completely forgotten. Only Red Robin was left in the common room before him, now having returned to work, a cup of coffee having appeared from who knows where. Spoiler next to the archer was stuffing her face with a waffle. She met Oliver's eyes and shrugged,

“Like father, like daughter.”, she simply stated before turning around and pouring batter onto the waffle iron again. Red Robin hummed an agreement.

<- Prev. | Next -> CH1 | CH2 | CH3 | CH4 | CH5 | CH6

[appleswan]

I think that what a lot of comic book writers don't understand about the conflict between Bruce and Jason is what it's primarily about, because while yes the whole killing people thing plays a part it's not nearly as large of a part as people assume it to be. If it was about the act of killing both Damian and Tim would have been facing the same kind of damnation as Jason does. But they don't.

What Jason and Bruce's conflict boils down to is the conflation of the past with the present. Both parties are guilty of this, remembering what was and equating it to what is or what should be. For Bruce (and Dick) it's conflating Jason as Robin with Jason as Red Hood and seeing a child that he let walk down the wrong path. He see's what was (a great morally good hero) with what is (a morally grey Anti-hero) and thinks that Jason should be more like what Robin was which is impossible now due to many different situations and influences that have shaped Jason as an adult and as a hero. Meanwhile for Jason it's conflating the Bruce of the past with the Batman of the present, remembering who Bruce was as a mentor and father and seeking that in a Batman who has already mourned and grieved for a dead son and partner. There's more to that, including the hurt and betrayal of realizing that his death wasn't avenged, but I digress.

They are both so drastically different from when they worked together that they're near strangers. Their antiquated sense of who the other should be has driven a wedge between them that widens through near every interaction as they don't understand who the other person is as a person anymore. They've both been shaped by drastically different influences and circumstances that now there's not much that they can agree upon. That sense of past conflating with present is also why you see Dick fighting a lot more with Jason too, because he knew Jason as Robin.

There's a reason that Jason seems to get along more with people like Steph, Duke, and Cass, people who didn't know him as Robin. It's because they don't have this idealistic childlike version of him to hold onto a pedestal. They never grieved him so they don't hold onto those memories because there were none.

Personally I also think that a lot of the conflict at least on Jason's end comes from a poor sense of identity. He doesn't exactly know who he is or who he wants to be as a hero because he never really got a chance to discover that for himself unlike both Dick and Tim. When we see him start to pull away from Batman and begin that path of self-discovery he's blown up, and when he comes back to life there's people telling him what to do and urging him in certain directions. And while he has some time with the Outcasts I still think he's operating mostly under the influence of the League of Assassins and in the Prince of Gotham arc he's operating under a sense of obligation to Gotham (which I love don't get me wrong).

Furthermore a lot of critical years of brain development were stolen from him where he was either training, comatose, or catatonic. I don't think it's irrational to assume that he's going through those vital years of development just at a later date.

It's why I like the end of Task Force Z so much, we see him going on his own to discover who he is as a person outside of all these other influences and people trying to dictate who he's supposed to be. He's going on that journey of Self-Discovery that is needed so much

I also think that a lot of their problems could have been solved if Bruce had told Jason that the only thing that kept him from killing Joker after he died was diplomatic immunity and Superman. "It would have been too easy" my ass! You wanted too, Bruce, and you were going too.

Just my two cents idk I have a lot of thoughts about this and it kinda pisses me off how there always seems to be a fight between Jason and Batman + Batfamily in every Red Hood run. And it doesn't make sense because they're good and then they're not good and then they're fighting again. I just want some consistency (Please for the love of god don't get me started on how much I wish writers would drop the fucking crowbar thing). I just think that their conflict is a lot more nuanced (on both sides) than Jason does morally reprehensible things sometimes. I could be very wrong about this too, I'm just thinking tm

[loverlighted]

hey if i wanted to get into batman comics where would i start. i am asking this purely on the basis that u reblog a ton of comic stuff so u don’t have to answer if u dont want to haha

@amongusbabiescustodybattle

I'm so sorry I don't know how long this has been in my asks. Disclaimer: I haven't read comics in a while and these are purely my own opinions.

If this list is too overwhelming, start at either Detective Comics #568 (if you want 80s batfam vibes) or Detective Comics #934 (if you want modern batfam vibes).

I'd say a good starting place if you want a place to jump in featuring the entire modern cast of characters is Batman (2016) and Detective Comics (2016). A few Batfam characters have solos from this time too (These are at the start of Rebirth, which is one of the more recent reboots, this is where I started).

For individual characters, here are some recs. Most of these will not be from within the past 10 years.

Batgirl (2000): Cassandra Cain's solo, fleshed out her character a bunch. There's a few problems that are relics of the time but it's generally pretty well regarded

Batman and the Outsiders (Rebirth) is good for both Cass and Duke Thomas

Two good Duke comics are We Are Robin (2015 I think?) and Batman and the Signal (2018)

Batgirl (2009): this is Stephanie Brown's solo that only has (I think) 12 issues because of the New 52 reboot

SIDE NOTE DO NOT READ THE NEW 52 COMICS THEYRE SHIT AT LEAST MOST OF THEM

The 90s runs of Nightwing and Robin, starring Dick Grayson and Tim Drake respectively

Birds of Prey (1999): This is where you'll find a lot of Barbara Gordon as Oracle content

Batman and Robin (2009): Dick Grayson as Batman after Bruce's presumed death. Damian Wayne as Robin.

Red Robin (2009): Tim goes off the rails

Batman: Under the Red Hood (2005). Jason is back and murderous.

I'm also a big fan of Batman (2016) Annual #3 because of the Alfred content

Those are all I can think of at the moment. I'm sure some other comic people can think of a lot more (@junkoandthediamonds you are The Comic Person maybe you could give them some recs? No pressure)

Some individual issues I would recommend are:

Jason's robin run from the 80s: Batman #408-425 and Detective Comics #568-582 (thank you @dailyjasontodd because your post came up on google for this)

Tim's entrance: As a normal dude, Batman #436. As Robin, Batman #457. These issues are from 1989 and 1990 respectively.

Steph's debut: Detective Comics #647 in 1992

Steph's Robin run, Robin #126-128 in 2003 or 2004ish?

War Games. This is a 2004 event spanning multiple comic runs and crossovers. Stephanie's (fake) death. I'm not sure how good it actually is.

No Man's Land. This 1999 event was the debut of Cass.

That issue where Jason comes back and beats the shit out of Tim. It's in Teen Titans vol 3 issue 29

Damian's debut: Batman #665 (2006)

This is all I can think of atm. I hope it helped! If anyone else has some recs please rb with em!!

<3

[zorilleerrant]

BANG BANG BANG

3 8 & 9!

3. screenshot or description of the worst take you've seen on tumblr

I don't screenshot these for my own mental health but. I've genuinely seen someone - more than one person, actually! - claim that Jason Todd never killed anyone. And I don't know if it was just a joke that didn't land or if they're talking about Robin!Jason or something else, but I think there's a growing contingent of people who genuinely believe that every claim Jason killed anyone is a smear campaign. Which is like. That's the point of his character actually??? Like the whole point of Red Hood is exploring the morality of killing and what it does to a person regardless of morality. He wouldn't be an interesting character without the murders!!! The Cass misunderstanding (that she's an assassin) I get more because that's an easy mistake to make.

That Armand never really loved Louis, he was just convenient, which like. No he's not did you even watch the show? That's the most inconvenient motherfucker anyone could ever date. But also... none of the dramatic tension plays out unless he's in love! (Some of it I don't think played out anyway.) There's no reason for him to do anything he does unless he's head over heels and going crazy with it. And there's no poignancy to the breakup if neither of them care I mean. What about it then. (Also how can Daniel heal Armand's heart if it isn't broken, come on now.)

I've also been getting mad at people a lot for saying that Faith is a lesbian or has 'obvious lesbian coding' when like... she's one of the straightest characters on TV. Literally, no, people, you are just a lesbian and into her! That's the opposite! You're the opposite person from Faith in that equation!

8. common fandom opinion that everyone is wrong about

That any of the Batfamily smoke. Rich people just don't smoke anymore, haven't for quite a while, and certainly wouldn't be okay with their kids smoking. Which means they only do it as rebellion - except that Bruce had no parents to rebel against, and everyone else did superhero stuff for their rebellions. Even the ones who grew up in environments with a lot of smokers were too young to be smoking regularly when they were out on their own. Alfred might smoke, depending on his backstory, but not in front of the kids. Steph you could convince me was rebelling against her very health conscious mom, but you'd need to motivate an antagonistic relationship. Babs I feel would just think it's gross.

That Niko is aromantic. She literally decided two starfish were in love, just because they were next to each other and had contrasting color palettes. That's, if anything, an example of amatonormativity, not a thought that aromantics have all the time. I mean I think she just saw the starfish and had her own romantic thoughts, because she likes romance and thinks about it all the time, and if you want her to be arospec then make her aego!!!

That Xander is any more sexist or awkward than any of the other characters. Sure, a lot of his lines didn't age well... but neither did any of theirs, and no one decides they're evil for it. Well, except for the handful who have really violent things to say about Willow. I wish I could find more Buffy fans who watched it on the air tbh. He literally doesn't do anything except for normal teenage stuff like all the other teenagers also do.

9. worst part of canon

Alright, everyone's going to come at me for this one but like. I don't think Dick and Bruce should have an antagonistic relationship. Or even a tense one. Or even like 'well, Bruce is controlling and Dick is learning to be an adult, so they clash'. No? They really mostly shouldn't ever have problems. They're THE Batman and Robin; they know exactly what each other is thinking. They think in the same way and agree on 99% of stuff and don't ever misunderstand each other because they grew up together. They learned how to be heroes together. I don't need false conflict added to make the story world all dark and edgy and I don't see why it was. Dick is a kid who has normal growing up problems and Bruce is a supportive dad who sometimes gives the wrong advice because he didn't have the exact same problems, that's it.

The worst part of Invincible canon is that they specifically made the main character half asian and then didn't do anything thematic with it. Guys! His human half is asian, always seen as other, seen as a visitor or tourist even in his own home. His alien half, which is a visitor and tourist (and nefarious dictatorial influence), looks white, and thus is categorically instead of contingently accepted. Both halves would make him feel othered and outside of society, but one half people would reject outright for not looking othered, and the other half people would reject because they don't like to listen to asians having opinions on things. His dad was never racist to his mom because he didn't know how, and that helped her fall in love with him, but then the dude turns right around and has opinions about all humans that really sound a lot like the same orientalist arguments! And they just didn't SAY anything about it!!!!

The worst part of Buffy is Season 7.

lol probably everyone should specify a fandom

[phantoms-lair]

BatFam AU Beach Vacation

(Takes place midway through the last arc I have planned, tentively named Snowbird [further note: not because it's a finale arc, I just haven't had any idea past it yet])

Private beaches weren't something Jason Todd would ever have seen himself using. And there were only two reasons he agreed to go along with this. One is it wasn't a private Wayne beach. It was a private superhero beach, a place where Capes of all kinds and their loved ones could relax.

And knowing this would be available to Roy or Kori or Artemis kind of made it worth it (Especially since Roy let him crash on his couch after the Siege of Gotham. He was just...not up for dealing with anything brushing on his family after that.)

The Second was, shocker of all shockers, Bruce was actually admitting his perfect little family had problems and a family vacation outside of Gotham was his attempt at a first step in fixing it. And honestly, Jason wanted to see the old man sweat a little bit trying to figure it out.

He'd heard word there was a new vigilante in Gotham who was working with the Bats, but given the powers it was probably just Danny with a new look. There were no new faces here, but there also weren't people who were involved but not part of the official Wayne Family. Oracle, the Foxes, Spoiler, and Dr. Thompkins were absent.

Alfred was here, sitting back on one of the lounge chairs. He looked like he was fighting the urge to do things, but Bruce had made it abundantly clear this was a vacation for all of them, Alfred included.

Bruce himself was playing lifeguard, watching over his children. Damian was poking around a tidepool looking at the aquatic life. Dick looked like he was trying to do some ocean themed water-ballet, and Cass and Tim were pretending to bury Danny in the sand. (Pretending as Danny would occasionally ready up an intangible hand to mess with his siblings).

Jason himself was content to sit under the umbrella with his favorite copy of The Brönte Sisters and read it in between watching how things were going.

Jason may not claim the title of World's Greatest Detective, but he was no slouch. And he was trying to determine what had gone wrong enough to pull Bruce's head out his ass.

Two things stood out. One was Danny and Cass sticking to Tim's side like glue. The other was Dick didn't seemed to be doting on the demon brat as much as he did before. This led to the conclusion that whatever had happened, Demon Brat had done it to Replacement.

And there was a small part of him that felt jealous, that of course for precious Timmy things would change. but he shoved it aside because he knew it was bullshit.

For one thing Replacement himself got replaced. The fact that he'd rebranded as Red Robin rather than start anew showed how unwilling he'd been to give up the title. For another Demon Brat had literally stabbed the then Robin as a greeting, pushed him off the dinosaur, and (if rumors were correct) cut his grapple line and nothing had changed. So whatever Demon Brat had done, it was bad.

Not that you'd know from looking at the third brother. He'd assumed something demanding that kind of response would leave a scar, but Replacement didn't have a mark on him.

Jason's brain did a record scratch as the implication caught up to him. Tim Drake had scars. Hell, Jason had given him a large chuck of them when he broke into Titan's Tower when he was at his worst. And he'd seen him get treated for injuries after B had been recovered from the timestream and his torso had been even more messed up.

Yet now here was Replacement wearing nothing but a pair of black swim trunks with skin as fresh as a newborn's.

And the hair on the back of his neck prickled. Even plastic surgery to remove scars left it's own marks if you knew what to look for. And Tim had none of those. In fact the only thing Jason could think of that healed so cleanly, to completely was...was the Pit.

Demon Brat what did you do?!